21 replies to this topic

[MRSBUCKET]

Tonight at around 11 p.m. local time, Police from Bangkok, Chonburi and Pattaya sealed off the Sunee Plaza area in Pattaya.
All Boys and Staff were taken from all Bars for drug tests.
100 + Staff waiting for tests in the street.
Business in Sunee suffers again.
Anyone have any further details.

[luvthai]

Raids always follow a pedophile bust. I am surprised it wasn't right after the arrest. The last raid turned up very few druggies in the bars. And I don't remember any underage in the bars.

[travelerjim]

See this posting...by globalwanderer
Pattayaland Soi 1 also included in Police sweep...

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum...ght-t12508.html .

"not just Sunee... also pattayaland soi 1 for a start.

at 1am no boys had returned.

in Sunee earlier many boys had just shut up shot


Went to pattayaland... Dynamite was open but said as they had no boys left they'd close after the show"

[MRSBUCKET]

It seems that Boyz Town was also raided along with Sunee Plaza last night.
In Sunee the Boys and other Staff were taken to the centre of the Plaza for the tests.
It was a long evening as the tests took long time.
Where Boys proved positive the Bars had their licences taken away. Not sure yet if they are being returned or a payment has to be made.
I am pleased to report that Topman was 100% clean and will be open tonight.

[TheYenta]

"If you want the lower end of the market, don't shop at Harrods! "

http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum...ght-t12508.html

That's the way a former bar madame, who made a living hawking Thai mermen from a big fish bowl on Pattayaland 3, described his former digs and neighborhood in Boytztown, compared to nearby areas in Pattayaland Soi 1 and Sunee Plaza. Sounds like Boyztown's answer to Hyacinth Bucket.

I remember that great line from Evita:

"Sure we wouldn't mind seeing her in Harrod's - but behind the jewelry counter, not in front."

[travelerjim]

Gaybutton has posted more info...
Gaybutton has reported on the Sunee Plaza raid...

http://www.gaythailand.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1952 .

"Last night a friend and I took a little tour of Sunee Plaza. Several of our friends like to hang out
at the Corner Bar and we were on our way there to catch up with them at about 9:00 PM.

As we passed one bar, someone told us a raid is expected at about 10:00 PM. In other words, Sunee Plaza was tipped off.

When we caught up with our friends at Corner Bar, they also told us a raid is expected at about 10:00 PM.
At about 9:40, that's when we began to see the under-age boys starting to make their exit from Sunee Plaza.

A few minutes later I wanted to leave. I had no desire to be around when a raid occurs.

Naturally, just my luck, my car was parked just outside of Sunee Plaza. Guess who discovered
he had a flat tire! My friend called his own boyfriend, who has a tire pump. While we were waiting
for him to arrive, we cooled our heels at the Po Pot restaurant.

Sure enough, at about 10:20 the police started arriving . . . in droves. Pickup truck after pickup truck,
loaded with police officers, entered Sunee Plaza. A large number of individual officers also arrived on motorcycles.

We saw them block off Sunee Plaza. Any under-age boys or boys on drugs were now trapped.
From what I understand, the police drug-tested and checked ID's of every single boy in Sunee Plaza, whether they were working in a bar or not.

I have a feeling, though, the police didn't reel in too many boys considering that just about everybody
in Sunee Plaza knew the raid was coming, at least an hour and a half in advance.
The bars had plenty of time to get rid of their under-age boys and I'm sure the boys on drugs had plenty of time to escape as well.

Once I had the tire in decent shape I wasn't about to hang around to watch the rest of it,
but any boys who ended up caught in the net would have to be either deaf or total idiots.

Everyone knew this raid was coming.

Now, why would I be thinking that there just may be someone in the police department
who gets paid to tip off the bar scene when a raid, especially a major raid, is about to occur?"

---------------

Thanks for sharing your insight GB...

TJ

[Snowy]

The last raid turned up very few druggies in the bars. And I don't remember any underage in the bars.

Not at all surprising as it appears everyone in Sunee had about an hour and a half's notice of the raid!

If the police were really serious in stamping out the drugs and under-age activities in Sunee, these raids would be carried out unannounced and without warning. As it is, they are purely for PR and show and to fool the general public into believing that something is being done to eradicate the problems. Looks like some of the BIB really earned their tea money this week !

[Gaybutton]

Looks like some of the BIB really earned their tea money this week !

What else is new? Believe it or not, this was the first time I have ever personally witnessed one of these raids. After seeing for myself the way this whole thing happened, now it would be awfully difficult to convince me that these raids are anything more than meaningless publicity stunts. I can't believe that everyone except the police knows exactly what goes on in some of these bars every night. I would guess that I saw at least 40 to 50 police officers stage the raid last night, and that was just from the Po Pot restaurant side. Most likely just as many simultaneously initiated the raid from the Hollywood Disco side.

Once every blue moon we do hear about bars ending up shut down as a result of these raids. I now believe the most likely reason for that is because the tipster(s) either was unable to tip them off or couldn't tip them off in time.

The number of police officers involved in this raid was amazing. Meanwhile, you know what it would take to clean up the Sunee Plaza streets from under-age boys out there soliciting? Just two or three uniformed police officers stationed at Sunee Plaza, continually strolling through. I doubt it will ever happen. The bars would all be raising holy hell if that ever happened. It would scare off too many customers.

On second thought, maybe even that wouldn't work. There are plenty of police on Walking Street, but there is still plenty of crime going on there. But one thing I never hear about on Walking Street is under-age sex arrests. Every under-age sex arrest I have ever heard about involving Pattaya is "farang" getting in trouble at their residences with local kids or some idiotic "farang" like that Frenchman who was recently arrested for having taken an under-age boy from the streets of Sunee Plaza. I don't even recall any arrests at all that involved "farang" who had taken boys "off" from a bar, regardless of the boy's age. Of course, it's getting more and more difficult to find a hotel that will allow under-age boys to enter.

That Frenchman, by the way, according to news reports will deported and blacklisted from ever returning to Thailand again. (see http://www.pattayamail.com/current/news.shtml#hd8 ). I just loved the caption next to the photo in that article, the part that identifies the Frenchman "seated center." Really? Gee whiz, and without that I would have thought it must be the gentleman on the left. I couldn't help but notice that even at the police station, having his picture taken, he still has a hand on the boy.

You know what else I never hear about? Under-age girls working at the girlie go-go bars. Nobody is going to convince me that the only pedophiles that come to Pattaya are gay pedophiles. I do not patronize the girlie bars, but I would be very surprised if it turns out that none of the girlie bars employ under-age girls. How come we never hear anything about that?

I have not yet heard anything about the number of arrests that occurred last night, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the same boys that were arrested last night are back in the bars tonight.

[wowpow]

I wonder if the Sunnee Plaza information flow is that same as Bangkok bars. I have seen bars close because the raid was expected. One token bar is raided and some law contravention found. I remember that X-treme was closed because they found an underage girl there - just under 21 years old in the audience. Maybe the fact that it was farang owned influenced decisions?

The Police seem to enjoy making raids and getting publicity for doing a good job. Prostitutes on Walking Street/Beach Road, Boys underage in Sunnee Plaza, Illegal immigrants almost everywhere. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. Their actions do nothing whatever to remove or reduce the 'problems'.

Like Gaybutton, I had always thought that the underage thing would be proportionate to the number of heterosexuals and homosexuals. I did a bit of prison visiting at one time and the leader Chris from Pattaya City Ex-Pats Club was very informative. He told me that the underage sex thing, from what he had seen, was a totally homosexual problem in Pattaya. In years of visiting he had never had a case of a farang or Thai accused of underage sex with women. I do remember a newspaper scandal a few years back when a Cabinet Minister was caught with a very young female virgin and had to resign. I am sure that it happens but it seems to be very discreet. In my few visits to girl go-go bars I have never seen any remotely underage as one finds in several bay bars.

The sad fact is that Pattaya is renowned worldwide for male pedophilia which reflects very badly on the homosexual community and visitors.

[Gaybutton]

The sad fact is that Pattaya is renowned worldwide for male pedophilia which reflects very badly on the homosexual community and visitors.

I agree completely with you, and that's another reason why I, to put it as mildly as I can, have no sympathy for the pedophiles. Regardless of rationalizations and justifications for it, it is still a crime - a felony, the kind that can lock you away in hellish conditions for many years along with costing you a fortune. Until and unless the laws are ever changed, those who engage in under-age sex cause problems for everyone else. I believe that if there was no under-age sex going on, then hearing about these raids would be as rare as it was ten years ago.

I would have no objection to these raids except for one thing: They don't work. Despite all the raids that net under-age boys, boys on drugs, bars committing the heinous crime of playing Thai music without a license, the occasional "farang" who doesn't have his actual passport on his person, etc, the under-age boys and druggies are still there.

Raids or no raids, I see no indication that any of this is ever going to change. Even among ourselves, there is a significant number of people who are convinced that simply being in Sunee Plaza at all makes one a pedophile. The fact that foreigners continually come to Thailand and engage in it doesn't help. I can't help but be angered by the fact that the actions of a few puts such a stigma on everyone else in the gay community who neither has nor wants anything to do with it, but is also powerless to be able to do much of anything to put a stop to it.

[Snowy]

I can't help but be angered by the fact that the actions of a few puts such a stigma on everyone else in the gay community who neither has nor wants anything to do with it, but is also powerless to be able to do much of anything to put a stop to it.

I beg to differ with the last part of your sentence. If the gay community took a collective and active stand against the perverts and their paedophilia and ostracized/informed on/chased them away from Sunee Plaza or anywhere else they congregate and made sure that they realized that they were not welcome, the problem would diminish and eventually go away (admittedly probably to some other area) or at least become less significant. Withdrawal of custom from the bars that include and encourage under-age kids would also help - hit the bar owners hard in the pocket and let them know why they are losing custom and they would soon get the message! However, as far as I can see, these sick perverts are at the very least tolerated within the Pattaya gay community and in many cases their feeble attempts to justify their actions are met with a blind eye or condoned and in some cases even supported by the 'normal' gay community - the live and let live attitude.

You have only to read these boards every time criticism of under-age sex in Sunee Plaza and Thailand as a whole is raised to see the excuses the pedos and their closet friends trot out and how they attack those criticising them (the favourite attack line is that the critic is somehow a closet pedo suppressing hidden feelings and tendencies - a ridiculous assertion - but it is often said that attack is often the best form of defence !!). The trouble is that there are not enough people taking a stand against these sickos and their perverted activities for the very reason that they run the very real risk of being vilified if they do.

[travelerjim]

Pattaya City News Report of Police Raids....
Pattaya City News report of Police raids...

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_18_08_50_3.htm

South Pattaya Bars checked by Bangkok and local Police
despite calls for leniency in these low season months.

On Friday Night, Police and District Officials made checks on bars located in the South Pattaya area.
Checks on licenses, explicit shows and employees were made.

We begin at Soi Sunee Plaza in South Pattaya where Banglamung District Licensing Officials
accompanied by Police Colonel Sutin, the Superintendent of Pattaya Police and a group of Officers inspected many bars.

Almost 100 people were checked to ensure they were carrying their ID Cards and if they had recently consumed met-amphetamine.

License checks were also made on many of the bars.

At the end of the exercise, 20 people were arrested after failing urine tests.

There were no licensing irregularities found.

more...

http://www.pattayacitynews.net/news_18_08_50_3.htm .

TJ

[MRSBUCKET]

I wonder if the Sunnee Plaza information flow is that same as Bangkok bars. I have seen bars close because the raid was expected. One token bar is raided and some law contravention found. I remember that X-treme was closed because they found an underage girl there - just under 21 years old in the audience. Maybe the fact that it was farang owned influenced decisions?

Maybe your finger slipped on the buttons (not wiped the KY off yet perhaps), but the age would be OK at 21. 20 is the age the age that anyone can enter a Bar.
How absurd it is that a Boy/Girl can work as a prostitute in a Bar at 18 yet cannot go into a Bar/Disco until 20.
So if a Boy if offed from a Bar at 18, thats OK, but if he is taken to the Bar next door he's committing an offense.
Besides all that, last night was total over kill, there are better ways to do these things and not upset the legitimate customers in the Bars.
Do they want to empty Thailand of farangs or what.

[travelerjim]

Pattaya People reports 11 drug tests positive/16 NO ID card
Pattaya People Newspaper reports on riday night raid!

Police Raid Night Entertainment Venues

http://www.pattayapeople.com/default.asp?F...;IdArticle=7139 .

"A group of police officers were ordered to go around Pattaya to make strict inspections of entertainment venues in the night of Friday 17th August

The first area that the team decided to go to was the famous Soi Sunee, in South Pattaya, where many reports have come through to the police that in some bars there are illegal activities going on; some venues allow under aged children in, which is against the law.

From an inspection of 200 people in Soi Sunee, the police found that 184 had their identification cards on them and 16 people did not carry their ID cards, also 11 people’s urine tests proved positive that they had just taken drugs. They were all taken to the police station and charged accordingly.

News stories placed on this website are short versions. If you would like the full story, please read the Pattaya People Weekly newspaper."

TJ

[Gaybutton]

If the gay community took a collective and active stand against the perverts and their paedophilia and ostracized/informed on/chased them away from Sunee Plaza or anywhere else they congregate and made sure that they realized that they were not welcome, the problem would diminish and eventually go away

Well, I can't disagree with that, but that's quite a big "if." I wouldn't exactly bet the farm that it will ever happen. Even if everyone was inclined to do that, I suspect a great many would be reluctant to even think about making those kinds of waves in a foreign country where they can't speak the language. It's a nice dream, though.

[A friend]

He told me that the underage sex thing, from what he had seen, was a totally homosexual problem in Pattaya.

Which is why, to many casual observers, homosexuality is synonymous with paedophilia.

The term 'closet paedos' appears to have been coined. Let's remember that paedophilia is not a crime. It is not a criminal offence to be sexually attracted to children. A crime is only committed if a paedophile assaults a child, indecently exposes himself, posses pornographic images, etc.

[Hedda]

"However, as far as I can see, these sick perverts are at the very least tolerated within the Pattaya gay community and in many cases their feeble attempts to justify their actions are met with a blind eye or condoned and in some cases even supported by the 'normal' gay community - the live and let live attitude."

As a member of the community, I suppose it would be disingenuous to plead anything but "nolo contendere" to that charge. It's lawyer's latin for "no contest." In a criminal proceeding, it allows a defendant to enter a plea in which he does not accept or deny responsibility for the charges but agrees "not to contest" the accusations.

There is a "live and let live" attitude here among expats which is largely dictated by the fact that (1) the locals don't seem to give a damn about solving the problem of pedophilia and (2) without local initiative, especially among law enforcement officials, there is virtually nothing that a farang can do to intervene effectively, without exposing himself to potentially serious consequences.

There is a dark side to the organized sex industry everywhere it exists, and Thailand is no exception. Not being Jedi knights, most expats would be wise to heed Yoda and not fool with the dark side.

[Snowy]

There is a "live and let live" attitude here among expats which is largely dictated by the fact that (1) the locals don't seem to give a damn about solving the problem of pedophilia and (2) without local initiative, especially among law enforcement officials, there is virtually nothing that a farang can do to intervene effectively, without exposing himself to potentially serious consequences.

There is a dark side to the organized sex industry everywhere it exists, and Thailand is no exception. Not being Jedi knights, most expats would be wise to heed Yoda and not fool with the dark side.

Your observations are of course spot on (again).
However they do illustrate my point that there is not the will or courage within Thai society nor the 'normal' gay expat community to take a stand against paedophilia. A good start would be to boycott those businesses that service or encourage it and to ostracize those farangs who can be readily identified as pedos and make them unwelcome and uncomfortable. Beyond that I am not advocating an armed jihad !

As it stands the 'mai pen rai' and 'live and let live' attitudes prevail. The pedos go about their vile business without a care in the world and with little fear of arrest. In the meantime gay expats and visitors to Pattaya, because of its reputation rightly or wrongly as a pedo nirvana, tend to be tarred with the same brush.

[Gaybutton]

ostracize those farangs who can be readily identified as pedos and make them unwelcome and uncomfortable.

I agree with you, but I have a problem with the above part of your recommendation. How, exactly, would we go about readily identifying pedos? Again, different people have different ideas as to what constitutes a pedo. We all know that many believe that mere presence in Sunee Plaza makes someone a pedo.

I know this is probably way out of line, but I can't help being reminded of another attempt to readily identify a group of people in the 1930's and early 1940's by forcing them to wear large yellow Stars of David.

[Snowy]

How, exactly, would we go about readily identifying pedos?.............forcing them to wear large yellow Stars of David.

I am sure that experienced hands like yourself amongst the gay expat community know exactly who these people are. As for visitors - when the word gets round that they are not welcome, as it surely would, they may think again before visiting.

As for making them wear stars - what about a bright pink one with the image of a dummy - pacifier for you Americans - on it ??

[luvthai]

If a few guys here would put their money where their mouth was maybe there would be enough agencies operating that could provide shelter and food and training for these lads. It is always easier to sit back and criticize and tell everyone what is needed to correct the problem but very few try to do anything about it. This has been a problem since the beginning if time and will continue to be so until hunger and poverty are wiped out. The thai economy is about to take a big downward plunge which means parents will be turning more children out on the streets because they cannot afford to feed and clothe them. If you don't think thai parents do this just ask the ones on the street.

[A friend]

'The thai economy is about to take a big downward plunge...'

That's for sure. Very soon, we will see mass unemployment and a free-falling baht. Every cloud has a silver lining; it will encourage tourism and farang will be snapping up property for peanuts.