24 replies to this topic

[TheYenta]

For reasons he shares only with his hairdresser, the poster known as "Kquill" decided - out of the blue as far as I can tell - to resurrect his tattered tale of woes in what he likes to see as the titanic struggle between good and evil in the wild west days of Boyztown.

He calls it "Fighting for justice." As the former chain-smoking operator of the big fish tank in Pattayaland 3, he might just as well have called it "Fighting for Air."

Those of us who are old enough to have heard the stroy the first time around wonder just what prompted the former gogo madame, who was quietly retired in Issan, to drag out the stained speedos, scattered sequins and sordid stories that once shook Pattaya's self-styled bar-and-bimbos-in-drag society to the foundation.

For those youngsters here, in age or time-in-paradise, you might enjoy reading what passes for a tepid recapitulation of the stale and seedy news of scandal in Boyztown, that once sent a foolish expat to a Thai prison for what was thought to be an open-and-shut case of illegally smuggling cigarettes, but turned into a three-ring circus filled with all sorts of clowns and supposed criminals.

If you don't know what I'm taking about, you're probably better off. It's a stale tale, and you might get disillusioned when you see a few of the self-styled doyens of Pattaya's gogo society presented in a very different light. That didn't stop many of the old crows at SF, or maybe one crow using a lot of different names, to use the thread as an opportunity to take a swipe at a business in Boyztown whose current owners had absolutely nothing to with serving up any of these dirty deeds and refried beans - and the gas that followed.

If you don't beleive me, take a look for yourself. http://www.sawatdee-gay-thailand.com/forum...ice-t12766.html

What I don't understand is why Kquill chose this point in time to drag the old clippings out of the closet at Sawatdee forum. Things must really be boring in Issan.

[spot the dog]

For reasons he shares only with his hairdresser, the poster known as "Kquill" decided - out of the blue as far as I can tell - to resurrect his tattered tale of woes in what he likes to see as the titanic struggle between good and evil in the wild west days of Boyztown.

He calls it "Fighting for justice." As the former chain-smoking operator of the big fish tank in Pattayaland 3, he might just as well have called it "Fighting for Air."

Pray tell us ''The Yenta'' just who are you and what axe are u grinding? Are you one of the fire queens of Boyz Boyz etc. or just a gossip queen stirring the ashes?

I personally have no interest apart form being a reader of the boards. Kquill's interest maybe that the case continues as appeals are still pending as I understand it.

What is your interest?

[Garcia]

Are you one of the fire queens of Boyz Boyz

Just what is that term supposed to mean or suggest ?

[Hedda]

I dont think there's much doubt that certain elements posting on SF have tried to use that unfortunate thread as an excuse to trash the folks who used to run Boyztown's most famous hotel and gogo bar. I suspect that the reference here to "fire queens of Boyz Boyz" is part of that same sentiment.

Regardles of what you may think of the events that happened back then, or the cast of characters involved in it, there's no reason why the business itself, or its current owners, should be tarred and feathered for something they had no part of. Allowing a thread that's styled "Fighting for Justice" to stir such a potentially damaging hornets' nest of biased attacks is unfortunate.

[pete1969]

An exceptionally one-sided affair, and a story with enough holes and questions marks to make even the most naive reader know there is so much they are not being told. Remarkable how many people have rushed to judgement in this matter based only on the information presented with no care in the world for hearing from the other side or for questioning the rather inconsistent story at hand.

Pete

[B.I.G.]

Perhaps I am wrong, but my impression was that the gentleman who started that thread on SF did pleaded himself guilty to some offense under Thai laws for smuggling or possessing cigarettes that were not legally purchased in Thailand and which were going to be taken illegally to the UK.

If he did pleaded guilty, I don't see where he has any claim to be "fighting for justice." It reminds me of that senator Craig who pleaded guilty after getting caught and now says he didn't know what he was doing.

I certainly don't know for sure the full story here but Pete69 is certainly being accurate when he says that what's been posted on SF is very one-sided and really unfair in allowing anonymous posters to trash the business and its current owners. I think some apologies are due for posting that thing in the first place and allowing it to be used so one-sidedly.

[Snowy]

Perhaps I am wrong, but my impression was that the gentleman who started that thread on SF did pleaded himself guilty to some offense under Thai laws for smuggling or possessing cigarettes that were not legally purchased in Thailand and which were going to be taken illegally to the UK.

If he did pleaded guilty, I don't see where he has any claim to be "fighting for justice."

I agree that the thread on SGF has been almost uniquely one-sided and that there is no excuse for linking the present owners and their business (hotel and club) with the whole sorry saga (although one of the original principles is still heavily involved in that business).

It is quite clear that neither side in the issue was whiter than white and that parties on both sides appear to have had (as the police in the UK would say) 'previous form'.

However, I take issue with B.I.G.'s comment above. There is a vast world of difference between pleading guilty (if he indeed did?) to possessing and handling a few thousand stolen/smuggled cigarettes and being framed for possession and handling of drugs (methamphetamines) - an offence that can lead to the death penalty. The Thai Appeal Court eventually ruled that KQuill had been framed for this and he was completely exonerated of drug possession but only after spending six months or so of a lengthy prison sentence in a Thai jail.

As I read it his 'fight for justice' relates to his arrest and imprisonment for that. If I had spent time in a Thai jail for something I didn't do and for which I was framed, I too would take every opportunity to 'fight for justice'.

However, I suppose that if one dabbles in a murky underworld such things are part and parcel of that life and happenings of the sort outlined in the SGF thread are risks one has to expect may happen.

[Bob]

To use one of the internet forums to dredge up this old matter - with the standard factless allegations and gossip - is rather silly.

Your comments, Snowy, are quite fair especially in light of BIG's post before you (which, frankly, indicates he knows nothing of the matter and didn't even bother to read the entire thread on the Sawatdee forum).

[Khor tose]

I never heard about this story. I, for one, find it and the discussion interesting. Sorry Yenta, but I am glad it was brought up. It may be old gossip to many but it is fancinating insight into Pattaya's gay boy background. GB how come you never told me about this and why no comments from you on any of the websites?

[Wiley]

This is better than chasing road runners. That line in one of the articles on SF about the "MacMafia" running Pattayaland 3 is a classic. No matter which side of these sordid stories you believe, it's clear than all dogs in Boyztown do have fleas.

[NYCGuy]

This is all a revelation to me, since I am usually only a visitor to Thailand for holidays. I find it impossible to tell, however, what is yellow tabloid journalism run wild or an accurate expose of the dark side of the sex racket in Boyztown. Some of it sounds like a badly scripted B movie of the Godfather, expat version. I'm not sure what parts are fiction or fact, but there's nothing like a good dish to get people's interest.

[Dick]

There is a vast world of difference between pleading guilty (if he indeed did?) to possessing and handling a few thousand stolen/smuggled cigarettes and being framed for possession and handling of drugs (methamphetamines) - an offence that can lead to the death penalty.

Of course there's a vast difference between the severity of the crime and its penalties. But they're both criminal offenses as far as I can see, even if some prefer to call cigarette smuggling "a stupid mistake." There are thousands of people in jail for making stupid mistakes just like that. Whether he was framed for drug possession didn't make the cigarette thing legal.

I've heard most of this Kevin stuff all before, and as far as I can see, there are no heroes in this drama. Some of the supposed gory details about the guy who died in the hotel fire are new to me. According to one source cited there, arrests were originally made after the fire, but no charges laid for lack of evidence of foul play.

Accidents do happen and grieving relatives can believe or say anything. I do agree that what happened to Kevin or anyone else is no excuse for trying to trash a business whose current owners had nothing to do with any of this stuff. I can't believe some of the old dreary queens who took the thread at SF as a chance to "get even" with the hotel because of some bad service 10 years ago !

[wpcoe]

I do agree that what happened to Kevin or anyone else is no excuse for trying to trash a business whose current owners had nothing to do with any of this stuff.

I'm still not sure it's entire clear to everybody that Jim and Gordon (dare I use their names?) sold their interest in the hotel and bar. They no longer own the establishments. Jim has remained on board in some managing or consulting capacity, but is no longer an owner.

[Once In A Long While]

Yenta is being rather disingenous in her post. Quill did not dredge up the story and was only commenting on his wait for an appeal hearing after it had been reported that another British national had been cleared after being found guilty on drug charges. His appeal as far as I understand does not involve either of the 2 former principles of the Ambience Group. The Sawatdee thread is now closed but no where in it has Quill made any acusations about either of the other 2 parties. There is at least one link provided to information in the public record. The Bangkok Post and a free lance journalist were found guilty of libel by the Thai courts and I believe the journalist is appealing his guilty verdict. Interestingly enough no libel charges were filed in the UK even though at least 1 newspaper had published much of the same information contained in the Post.

[Haloi]

Quill did not dredge up the story and was only commenting on his wait for an appeal hearing

Commenting where and on what ? Most litigants I know wait for the court to decide. I'm still waiting for an explanation of what all those illegal cigarettes were doing in his car. Was that a frame too ?

[Snowy]

Interestingly enough no libel charges were filed in the UK even though at least 1 newspaper had published much of the same information contained in the Post.

The sort of language/words used, and proof required, to prove an accusation of libel in Thailand is much, much less and far removed from that required to sue for libel in the UK.

[Once In A Long While]

Commenting where and on what ? Most litigants I know wait for the court to decide. I'm still waiting for an explanation of what all those illegal cigarettes were doing in his car. Was that a frame too ?

Not the sharpest pencil in the box are you Haloi??? Perhaps if you actually went a read his post on Sawatdee your questions would be answered. He is appealing his conviction for possesion of illegal drugs, which would clearly indicate that the court has decided. As for the cigarettes I have seen nothing to indicate one way or the other that were obtained illegally in Thailand. If you have proof of that kindly state your source. It is however, without doubt that he had planned to import them illegally into the UK.

[DollyLamma]

Not the sharpest pencil in the box are you Haloi??? Perhaps if you actually went a read his post on Sawatdee your questions would be answered.

I read everything too and it's far from clear to me just what has been decided and what's being appealed. What's bizarre to me is that a man with such money to invest would have invoilved himself in such petty crime as smuggling cigarettes into the UK. That suggests that he is peculiar, to say the least. I realize, of course, that that doesn't mean he is guilty of having drugs, even if it raises doubts about his capacity. One must assume that rich people who are too cheap to buy legal cigarettes are capable of much more in the line of law breaking, should the opportunity present itself. The whole thing is rather sordid if you ask me.

[Garcia]

The whole thing is rather sordid if you ask me.

I agree totally. The cast of characters is a bit squalid even for a re-run of Murder on the Pattaya Express. What's hard to believe is that some of these characters who are used to playing career roles as pimps and madames actually perceive themselves as part of some Pattaya elite.

[francois]

I agree totally. The cast of characters is a bit squalid even for a re-run of Murder on the Pattaya Express. What's hard to believe is that some of these characters who are used to playing career roles as pimps and madames actually perceive themselves as part of some Pattaya elite.

Pardonnez-moi! Does anyone perceive there is anything such as Pattaya "elite"?
Some might say that any farang resident of Pattaya, by default, are the riff-raff of society.

[Hedda]

some of these characters who are used to playing career roles as pimps and madames actually perceive themselves as part of some Pattaya elite.

Francois, I think the operative words are that they "perceive themselves" to be the elite, as in their mirror, not the real world.

As a long term expat in Pattaya, I take exception to being thrown into the dust bin with all sorts of "riff-raff" one is likely to find here, both Thai and farang. I don't deny that there are plenty of folks around this town who are hardly the creme-de-creme in a social or financial sense. But I wonder if it's much different than was Montmarte in the 1890's, when geniuses like Toulouse-Lautrec were quite happy living among the whores and riff-raff of Paris.

[Snowy]

But I wonder if it's much different than was Montmarte in the 1890's, when geniuses like Toulouse-Lautrec were quite happy living among the whores and riff-raff of Paris.

There are only very small number of Pattaya expats that I have met whom I would not include in the term riff-raff - (the rest by and large do manage live up to that description ).

However, to compare that small number, as much as I like them, to Toulouse-Lautrec or other similar geniuses is gross hyperbole and completely unfounded in fact !

[UncleSam]

There are only very small number of Pattaya expats that I have met whom I would not include in the term riff-raff

Has it occurred to you that maybe it's you who's moving in the wrong circles.

Hehehe.....

[Snowy]

Has it occurred to you that maybe it's you who's moving in the wrong circles.

You could very well be right but I much prefer them to any others - at least I can be reasonably sure that I won't be conned, ripped-off or back-stabbed !

HaHaHaHa....

[francois]

Francois, I think the operative words are that they "perceive themselves" to be the elite, as in their mirror, not the real world.

As a long term expat in Pattaya, I take exception to being thrown into the dust bin with all sorts of "riff-raff" one is likely to find here, both Thai and farang.

Sorry Hedda, I didn't mean to include you and the other posters on this forum as riff-raff.
Perhaps the farang of Pattaya are best described as the flotsam and jetsam of society? More or less includes everything that washes up on the beaches. No offense to anyone!