Jump to content


Suing boards for posters' comments


54 replies to this topic

#1 Expattaya

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 219 posts

Posted 22 November 2006 - 11:57 AM

In view of some recent talk here about suing the website for some comments made by one poster, it's interesting to note that the California Supreme Court has just ruled that internet service providers, website owners and bloggers cannot be sued for third-party comments posted on their sites.

In the case of Barrett versus Rosenthal the court found that only the originator of the content, the original poster, could be sued, and that third parties who own the site or repost the material are immune from defamation charges.

The case arose from two doctors who ran websites debunking some alternative medicines and health care providers and seeking to identify what they called medical fraud.

On of those alternative health practitioners hosted a letter from a third party posted on her website which accused the two doctors of being Nazis and " hired guns for vested interests", and suggested that both had engaged in criminal activities. The two doctors sued the website, saying it was responsible for allowing and then not removing the post. The suit was dismissed.

The ruling does not protect the original poster of the comments, if they are defamatory, but the court found that internet sites should receive the same protections as "common carriers" like telephone companies, as carriers of messages, rather than being seen as publishers responsible for all posters' content.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2169219/...court-rules-web

#2 Old Slapper

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 103 posts

Posted 22 November 2006 - 02:53 PM

Interesting, but what's that got to do with Thailand? California's not even a country.

#3 UncleSam

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,759 posts

Posted 22 November 2006 - 06:35 PM

I think old slapper's been slapped around a little too often.

Hehehe.....

#4 Old Slapper

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 103 posts

Posted 22 November 2006 - 07:08 PM

What I meant, Uncle Tom, was so what if California makes such a ruling? It holds no water outside that State much less the US and even less again in another country like Thailand which has its own laws.

#5 Village Idiot

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 298 posts

Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:11 AM

Thaiwonon (sic) is busy warning posters on the other sites about this forum (a snake pit).. Funny thing is
if you didn't look at the handle of the poster, you would assume it was the same gang of one that
was threatening legal actions here.. Amazing how many handles one man needs to try to make a point
but it gets scary when he talks to himself..
Of course, trying to warn people not to come to Baht-Stop has the opposite effect and makes people curious to see what is going on..
I used to think Hedda was a bit off base when he kept talking about "hydra heads" running the show on other forums but now I understand and see Hedda was right on.. The gang of one should really have a blog instead of pretending to have supporters and talk to himself under many different handles.. sad but true... wacko.gif

#6 Old Slapper

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 103 posts

Posted 23 November 2006 - 08:39 AM

I see, so when did Thailand or any Asian court take for that matter begin to take any notice of what happens in California, or any part of the US legal system when making up its own rulings?

About as much notice as the Thais do of American democraccy.

#7 Hedda

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,841 posts

Posted 23 November 2006 - 09:46 AM

QUOTE
so when did Thailand or any Asian court take for that matter begin to take any notice of what happens in California, or any part of the US legal system when making up its own rulings?


Only earlier this year, dear. If you knew anything about this legal subject, you would know that a Thai court recently adopted what amounts to the US Supereme Court's "New York Times" test for the application of defamation laws and alleged invasions of privacy involving public figures.

It was the case in which Thaksin sued a reporter for allegedly defaming him about using his influence to profit from his government position. If you bother to read the opinion, you will see that it is greatly influenced by the standards enunciated in the NY Times decision.

Frankly, the internet ambulance chasers we seem to have attracted lately are getting a bit tiresome, running around various boards using various names, trying to intimidate anyone who dares stand up to your attempted bullying, by crying "DEFAMATION." Defecation might be a more appropriate term to define your posting antics.

When you do bring your lawsuit, presumably in Disneyland, how will you ever decide what name to use ?
.

#8 Guest_ear wig_*

  • Guests

Posted 23 November 2006 - 10:05 AM

You do think we are all idiots, "IDIOT" as the MOD1 has informed you, I am me Pearler69 is him, but we know your silly game trying to detract us to think your not posting with many names, silly but who cares, as I always say its what you say, not what name you write under, Im sure no desent guy is botherd if some people want to go under different names, genuine people never have to throw Flames like you all the time your obsessed with other people, try concentrate on writing something interesting because what we see so far your so boringly, repeating your self all the time with the same old garbage.

What is your problem get help if you cant consentrate on whats going on in thailand no one is bothed about me of the other guy, who ever he is.

#9 Mod1

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 286 posts

Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:16 PM

At Hedda's suggestion, I have pined this thread to the top of the board for a few days in view of the subject matter and its relevance to all posting boards.

The notion that a person using an anonymous name on an anonymous board can be defamed is a rather strange concept, since defamation, by definition, assumes that you must be known to be damaged.

No one, least of all the people who own or moderate this board, wants to see anyone defamed. At the same time, people who think that they can intimidate others from posting honest views by threats of law suits will find nothing to cheer about in this court decision.

We all win when free speech is protected as a first priority.

#10 Gaybutton

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,233 posts

Posted 23 November 2006 - 01:29 PM

QUOTE(Mod1 @ Nov 23 2006, 01:16 PM) View Post

people who think that they can intimidate others from posting honest views by threats of law suits will find nothing to cheer about in this court decision.


You can only be intimidated if you allow yourself to be intimidated. Personally, I couldn't care less what the message board "attorneys" insist is something for which you can be sued or something for which you cannot be sued, etc. None of that matters in the least. What matters is the advice you get from Thai attorneys familiar with this sort of case law.

These people who threaten others with lawsuits . . . why? If you want to sue someone, then file a lawsuit. Why even bother with the threat? Writing a threat is ridiculous. But for those who do feel intimidated by these threats, there's one little thing that has to occur if someone sues. He has to win his case.

Most of the threats I've seen are much more likely to give a Thai attorney his little laugh rather than be something he advises you to take seriously, but that's just my opinion, which also doesn't matter. As I said, the only thing that matters, at least to me, is what a Thai attorney says is actionable and what is not.

I'm trying to visualize the initial consultation in the Thai attorney's office:

Attorney: "What can I do for you today?"

Client: "I want to sue a message board and people who posted on it for defamation."

Attorney: "I see. Why?"

Client: "They posted messages claiming I am a pedophile."

Attorney: "They did? What sort of message board is it?"

Client: "It's a gay message board, used mostly by gay 'farang.'"

Attorney: "A gay message board. Do you also post on that message board?"

Client: "Yes."

Attorney: "Do you post under your real name or a fictitious name?"

Client: "A fictitious name."

Attorney: "I see. Can people identify you personally through that message board?"

Client: "Well, no."

Attorney: "Have you been damaged in any way?"

Client: "Uhhhhh, no."

Attorney: "Let me see. You are claiming that a fictitious name has been defamed, a name by which nobody can identify you personally. It's been a pleasure meeting you, Mr. Client. Come back and see me some time when you have a case."

#11 Jersey

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 198 posts

Posted 23 November 2006 - 10:18 PM

I did not follow the recent threats on this board about filing law suits, but I am happy that the California court ruled as it did. Moreover, as Gaybutton correctly observes, its' absolutely absurd to argue that strangers posting as Donald Duck or Mickey Mouse can libel each other on an anonymous board. I think the people who threaten lawsuits have no cogent arguments to make, so they resort to bluster.

#12 Guest_ear wig_*

  • Guests

Posted 24 November 2006 - 05:58 AM

I would not rely on the Forum local Barristers here if I was you, as found in the UK, IPS numbers can be traced, as you will find happened with Gloria on dredded ned and a few well respected People in Pattaya a few years ago, who was sued to have to pay a substantial damages I will not give away here.

Time will tell but it is still amazing how these Forum Bullies love to hide behind there Computer drinking there Gin at 1 am thinking they can tell what ever lie they like just because some members stands up to them, then go on after and tell the world they are against people telling lies on forums, to try to send the sent away from them, so the pack or bloodhouds they think does not trace them, its easy to trace them on here, just look for the guyz always harping on about how they dispise the young eliment bars, but in reality we can prove they are constantly in them and we are waiting for them to go in to them again, "Photos dont lie", in my book these big bullies must be brought to task. even from an Internet cafe they can be traced so try it if you like its going to happen.

The only way they think they can ruffle some feathers, is to call or say dastardly heinous accusations, then run and hide, what cowards!!!, why they cant be nice, does it not say something about there mind if they have to resort to this type of "Forum Terrorism" to make themselves feel big, when in side they are pure evil.

I'm trying to visualize the initial consultation in the Thai attorney's office:What about if it went like this though, as we know we can make anything sound as we want it to.


Attorney: "What can I do for you today?"

Client: "I want to sue a message board and people who posted on it for defamation."

Attorney: "I see. Why?"

Client: "They posted messages claiming I am a pedophile."

Attorney: "They did? What sort of message board is it?"

Client: "It's a gay message board, used mostly by gay 'farang.'"

Attorney: "A gay message board. Do you also post on that message board?"

Client: "Yes."

Attorney: "Do you post under your real name or a fictitious name?"

Client: "A name. everyone know me as in town I dont mind who knows"

Attorney: "I see. Can people identify you personally through that message board?"

Client: "Well, yes very many around the world."

Attorney: "Have you been damaged in any way?"

Client: "Yes defiantly as Im well known and they have defamed my character."


Attorney: "Let me see. You are claiming that a name many people know you as has been defamed, a name by which many can identify you personally. It's been a pleasure meeting you, Mr... Client. we can find out what computer he is writing from and if you can take timed photos and we can get to the computer concerned, I think you will be owning there home soon.

#13 Gaybutton

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,233 posts

Posted 24 November 2006 - 08:41 AM

QUOTE(ear wig @ Nov 24 2006, 05:58 AM) View Post

, as you will find happened with Gloria on dredded ned and a few well respected People in Pattaya a few years ago, who was sued to have to pay a substantial damages I will not give away here.


I am familiar with the 'Gloria' case. That was a little different, don't you think? That was defamation of a business and the business did suffer damages as a result. The story I was told, as I recall it, was that 'Gloria' was indeed caught red-handed, but the involved business did not bring forth a lawsuit. However, it is rare to see 'Gloria' in Pattaya anymore.

I don't agree with your scenario, but I do agree that it would be a mistake to rely upon what the "attorneys of the websites" say rather than relying on a qualified Thai attorney.

Even with a lawsuit there are still two problems. The first is winning the case. The second is collecting the damages.

#14 Guest_ear wig_*

  • Guests

Posted 24 November 2006 - 09:16 AM

That's where you ae wrong Gaybutton I was blamed for writing the offending posts because this person use to change my name to many different like mine, I was involved as well in being slandered also.?? I say no more. I was having breakfast at the Continental Bakery with this person not thinking my words of wisdom were being turned against me on dreaded net and also the old sawatdee my goodness we do go back a long way . By the way I see him from time to time he lowers his head and hides and so he should. as I said Im hiding from no one may be you have seen me and know who I am also to prove it.

gaybutton says: "Even with a lawsuit there are still two problems. The first is winning the case. The second is collecting the damages".

Dont worry a very good Barrister and a few good men and that is no problem I can asure you !!!

#15 Hedda

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,841 posts

Posted 24 November 2006 - 09:46 AM

Earwig, dear, you can be fun to translate into English when you are revelling in the latest gossip, but you are a real bore when you get stuck on that " I have been defamed " mantra.

Your problem is that you lack the legal credentials to make a case that you have been deflowered or defamed, so you resort to breast beating or threats of lawsuits, as if anyone is interested in your personally contrived persecution.

If, as you say, there are lots of people around Pattaya who know who you really are, ( I am not one of them) then you must assume that they also know you to be the sterling fellow that you claim to be.

If you are what you say you are, then how on earth could anyone who knows you give credence to any anonymous post that you seem to think has dented your reputation with a CREDIBLE accusation.

Do you honestly think that all those folks who you say know you, would give any credence to the anonymous accusation youclaim to have been victimized by ? If you do, then you must also think that your reputation in the community of the "I know who ear wig is" is not very good. In that case, how has your reputation suffered, if you imagine that it was so ambivalent to begin with ?

You can't have it both ways, dear. You either think that people who you claim know you would laugh at these alleged claims, or you think that to know you is to think you are capable of anything. Which theory are you working on ? Either you have no faith in yourself or you have no no faith in your reputation with those people who you claim know who. Why else would you be so concerned about what some anonymous post says about you ?

Frankly, I think it's time for you to concentrate on local news or gossip, that voodoo that you do so well, and forget about playing the role of martyr in a world of cartoon characters. Elmer Fudd took a lot of abuse from Bugs Bunny in his time, but I never once heard him scream that he was going to sue.

Playing the martyr does not suit you in the slightest, dear, so drop the cross and nails and rejoin the party.

.

#16 Gaybutton

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,233 posts

Posted 24 November 2006 - 09:57 AM

QUOTE(ear wig @ Nov 24 2006, 09:16 AM) View Post

That's where you ae wrong Gaybutton. I was blamed for writing the offending posts because this person use to change my name to many different like mine


Ok, then I stand corrected. Until now, I did not know that this person had used your name and caused you to be blamed for what he was doing. That's a different thing altogether. Using someone else's name, especially in such an activity, is about as reprehensible as it gets.

One thing I never knew. Perhaps you know. Why did he write those posts in the first place? I do remember several of those posts, but I never understood why he was doing that. Do you know?

#17 Village Idiot

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 298 posts

Posted 24 November 2006 - 10:03 AM

Some might have missed the remark about having "photos", which is the deluded meglo-egomaniac's
ace up his sleeve.. He claimed to be the poor put upon innocent but he has been trying to silence his
detractors with claims of having "photos" of them in compromising situations..
Blackmail is an ugly thing and thaiwonon/earwig/lmtu/pearl69er,bigboy4you, etc..etc.. should stop his attempts at blackmail, stop his attempts to manipulate every gaythailand forum with his multi personas, and take a long rest in a sanitorium..

This deluded and sociopathic poster is convinced of his own delusions and will continue to spew it out
until he is banned again as he was on every forum he despoiled with his insane need for attention and
his desire to uncover his enemies and twist and spin everything..
This blackmailer has been threatening with London tabloids exposing his enemies, secret photos he shot in
various bars of pedo action with old farangs, threatening to give names of pedos to their embassies, the police, and on and on.. It really is time for the sanitorium thaiwonon/earwig/lmtu/pearl69er/bigboy4you and all the many other handles which are too numerous to add.. tongue.gif

#18 Guest_ear wig_*

  • Guests

Posted 24 November 2006 - 10:31 AM

Oh dear 'idiot' talk about spewing out poison, cant you feel it coming from his posts, I never mentioned you, talk about having a guilty conscience, I was just chatting away to be attacked by all your aggressive venom, your sounding more guilty by ever post.

I am just protecting my self from a couple of dangerous megalomaniacs on here, but we have been down this road before Im 'ear wig' why you keep saying Not to be confused with any one else, unlike you, writing under other names here, try to calm down dear your have a heart attack.

If some one wrote on an open forum to get at you and wind you up a pack of lies, what would you do, of course protect your self and fight back, I dont think any one would blame me for that yes your right Im not afraid of telling you I have friends in Pattaya and my self that is waiting to take pictures to prove what the 2 perpetrators of these evil lies & are caught out simple as that. watching and filming there every move. fortunately we know them well. and only them.

What you dont know is I have been down this road before in Thailand and we caught them and brought them to justice and we are well on the way again, this is going to be fun. any way why should you worry as you say you only go to the older guy bars or are you may be in denile?

#19 Sexpat

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,146 posts

Posted 24 November 2006 - 10:38 AM

Careful, Ear Wig and Idiot, your posts are both starting to sound more accusatory and nasty than the ones you are both complaining about.

Ear Wig and village Idiot will meet at dawn at Dongtan Beach at the round toilets to fight a duel to the finish with loaded condoms.

#20 Guest_FanofThailand_*

  • Guests

Posted 24 November 2006 - 11:13 AM

QUOTE(Sexpat @ Nov 24 2006, 10:38 AM) View Post

fight a duel to the finish .


I'm stepping into this debate with trepidation. From my small experience in Thailand, the above method is one of the favourite ways of settling disputes and it's not confided to Thais fighting between themselves. I think it's very risky to start having goes at other farangs even if it is on an internet board as we have all heard how 2000 baht will buy revenge in this country and life is cheap. I doubt these boards do hide your identity even from cyber cafe particularly if a person was determined to track you down.

I don't think I'd be taking much notice of whatever happens in an LA courtroom either. While precendents can be set and used around the world, it's the actual legal costs that do you in, if you are not very propsperous. Anyone with a brain knows that courts in any country are for the wealthy. sad.gif


#21 UncleSam

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,759 posts

Posted 24 November 2006 - 11:17 AM

QUOTE
Anyone with a brain knows that courts in any country are for the wealthy.


Anyone with a brain ( that's not a veteran law suit hawker pretending to be a newbie ) knows that courts in any country are for the lawyers.

Hehehe....


#22 Old Slapper

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 103 posts

Posted 24 November 2006 - 11:38 AM

Well don’t forget for something to be defamatory it must also be untruthful. So if I call Hedda or Snowy or villageidiot or Thaiwomen a fucked-up nutjob that is not defamatory. It’s the truth.

#23 Guest_ear wig_*

  • Guests

Posted 24 November 2006 - 11:49 AM

Old slapper: I was wondering if only I had noticed smile.gif

sexpat: I would not wish that upon any clean condom to be contaminated like that, if it hit the idiot remember he hides behind a computer screen takes a man to stand up to your demons.

Be careful sexpat or your be showerd with his venum if you up set the idiot.

#24 Gaybutton

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,233 posts

Posted 24 November 2006 - 12:35 PM

QUOTE(Old Slapper @ Nov 24 2006, 11:38 AM) View Post

Well don’t forget for something to be defamatory it must also be untruthful.


That is not the case in Thailand. Under Thai law, as I understand it, it is considered defamation even if it is absolutely true.

I never thought I'd be saying this, but at least in this thread my sympathies are leaning toward Ear Wig. Yes, he does post about photographing people, filing lawsuits, etc, but I notice he made no attacks or threats toward anybody until he was attacked first. He hadn't even posted on this thread until an attack was posted against him. Why was he attacked?

Whether you like Ear Wig or not; whether you are convinced he posts under multiple handles or not; whether you believe what he posts or not, in my opinion the attack against him was totally unprovoked and uncalled for.

I am often the recipient of unprovoked attacks too. What I find difficult to understand is that when someone is subjected to an attack, and then responds to the attack, he is criticized and attacked further because of the manner of his response to that attack. It seems logical to me that if someone is attacked, then it is not beyond logic to expect a response to the attack. In this case, while I don't care for the manner of Ear Wig's response, I think he was absolutely right to respond.

I don't know why people find it necessary to initiate attack posts, but it happens far too often and I think the only thing such attacks really accomplish is to diminish the quality of message boards.



#25 Dick

    Veteran

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,063 posts

Posted 24 November 2006 - 01:11 PM

"... my sympathies are leaning toward Ear Wig. Yes, he does post about photographing people, filing lawsuits, etc, but I notice he made no attacks or threats toward anybody until he was attacked first. He hadn't even posted on this thread until an attack was posted against him. "

Look again, Gaybutton.

As far as I can see, no one mentioned Ear Wig in this thread when he volunteered his first attack by name on Village Idiot.

The Village Idiot had commented on a poster named "Thaiwonon" who he said was "part of a gang of one" making bad comments about Bahtstop on other boards and threatening lawsuits. Ear Wig was never mentioned by name.

It was Ear Wig who interpreted the reference to "Thaiwonon" as referring to him and which then led to a series of hissy-fit exchanges. If there was an unprovoked attack here, I read this thread to show that it came from Ear Wig, who went over the top as only he can do, when "Thaiwanon" was mentioned.

It's obvious that Ear Wig and Village Idiot know each other and hate each other's guts. Neither has the maturity to keep the feud out of their posting, which is unfortunate for the rest of us.