41 replies to this topic

[Lucas]

Do you think its fair to tell the boy that you are not able to pay him the 1000 baht for a short time he is used to receive from me?
My stocks went down and I don't receive interest on my savings.

[Hedda]

Sex for sale is almost always a negotiated transaction and what's "fair" is what both parties agree to pay and take, presumably dictated by supply and demand. Right now in Pattaya, there's a terrific glut of supply compared to demand because of the decline of tourism, so the laws of the market dictate that prices should come down.

If your economic situation dictates looking for sex for less, I don't see anything unfair about trying to negotiate a discount from what's become the "regular price." No doubt, the local business owners who rent boys and who have an interest in keeping prices high, will shout "cheap charlie" at the mere suggestion. And there's always the horny humanitarians who like to ease their conscience from any hint of exploitation by paying more than necessary.

Just remember that whatever you decide to offer a boy for one hour of sex in an air conditioned room with clean towels is probably 3 times what he can earn working his tail off at hard labor for a whole day for some Thai millionaire. It's also probably double what a Thai John would pay the same boy for the same thing you did. That should ease your conscience, if that's what's bothering you.

[mauRICE]

And there's always the horny humanitarians who like to ease their conscience from any hint of exploitation by paying more than necessary.

Horny humanitarians. Hedda, that was brilliant. Out goes the jaidii farang, in comes the horny humanitarian.

[Lucas]

I really think the bars should come down with their prices.
same for the off fees.
Because of the financial crisis I shop around before I buy.

Crazy pub has good and fair prices and I am happy that the owner was so clever to stop his drag shows.
I wish they all stopped those shows.

I think some bars in the boys town area have the most expensive prices.

At the old Throb bar, I even don't border to know the name the bar they charge 400 for an off and
150 baht for a glass of water.
I think its the same for Boys Boys Boys.
All the bars in this boys town street are to expensive for us horny humanitarians.
Don't worry they will have to start soon with happy hour prices to get any customers.
I for sure will not pay those prices.

By the way most of the customers in Throb and Boys Boys Boys are ladies who come to look to boys.
So those two bars are not realy gay bars.

[francois]

My stocks went down and I don't receive interest on my savings.

If you explain this to the boy I am sure he will understand and agree to a reduced rate. No doubt his financial circumstances are the same same.

[conrad]

I remember the price for a short time was 100 baht.( 1975) ( against 2009 rates this would be 250 baht now
So I think 500 baht for a short time is well payed.
Specially now with the financial/political/swine flew crisis

[luvthai]

It is not fair to ask the boy to discount his already cheap (compared to most other places in the world) fees just because you can't afford to pay him.
If one cannot afford to travel and treat the natives fairly then one should stay home and save for the next trip.

[gay_grampa]

By the way most of the customers in Throb and Boys Boys Boys are ladies who come to look to boys.
So those two bars are not realy gay bars.

I can tell you, from my regular visits to both bars, that you have posted a big fat lie.

If you cannot afford their prices then go some place else but please don't bolster your fragile argument with blatant untruths.

[Gaybutton]

If you cannot afford their prices then go some place else

I agree. Would people expect a hotel, an auto mechanic, a store, a doctor, a restaurant, or anybody else to let them have half price because of their personal financial troubles? Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way.

While I'm sure many of the bar boys would accept a reduced fee out of desperation, since something is better than nothing, that is about as unfair as it gets. Look at it from the boy's point of view. He can see that you have money enough to be able to afford to take a holiday, pay the airfare to come to Thailand, pay for a hotel, pay to eat in restaurants (even the kind I like), pay to drink, pay to go to bars and drink there too, and pay the bar's off fee, and yet you can't afford to give him at least the standard expected tip. How do you think you will be perceived?

If you want to save money, then find a way to do it without making life even more miserable for these boys than it already is. If you want to deprive someone, then deprive yourself, but not the boys, most of whom are probably the primary reason you came to Thailand in the first place.

[Gay Thailand]

If you want to save money, then find a way to do it without making life even more miserable for these boys than it already is. If you want to deprive someone, then deprive yourself, but not the boys, most of whom are probably the primary reason you came to Thailand in the first place.

GB, you are a wise man and see the issue very clearly. Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

[B.I.G.]

I agree. Would people expect a hotel, an auto mechanic, a store, a doctor, a restaurant, or anybody else to let them have half price because of their personal financial troubles? Sorry, but it just doesn't work that way.

GB, you are a wise man and see the issue very clearly. Thanks for pointing out the obvious.

You both need to open your eyes, not your wallets. Discounting and price cutting are exactly what's been happening in Thailand for the past six months. Big discounts in air fares, hotel rates, car sales and rentals, restaurant coupons and 2 for 1 price reductions. The hospitals are giving special discounts on check-ups, dentists have special promotions, and even the Thai government has cut the fees for visas and park admissions.

Your problem is that you have fallen hook, line and sinker for the bar owners' BS that there's a "standard expected tip" that's chiseled in stone. If these boys lead as miserable life as you say, why don't we see the bar owners increasing the boys' percentage of the drinks they hustle or give the boys a bigger cut of the off fee ? Prostitution is still one of the most profitable businesses in Thailand and there's no reason it shouldn't operate as a business, cutting prices in bad economic times.

[Bob]

If it's a fairly negotiated price, I suppose I don't have any problem with whatever the amount would be; however, I would consider it rather lowbrow to underpay because a kid might be more desparate than usual and, besides, paying 1000 baht (about $29.99 US) is hardly an unfair or exhorbitant price given what you're buying.

[Gaybutton]

What a hypocrite you are, Gaybutton! Did not you (proudly) confessed on another board that you are making private arrangemaments with dancers on bar premises and do not pay bars off fees?

First, nitwit, I rarely go to the bars at all. In the past 3 months I have been to the bars twice. Yes, I said I make my own arrangements with boys rather than pay exorbitant off fees to the bars. I also pay them the standard rate and I add to that the amount I would have paid the bar in off fees. They end up getting more from me than they get from most people who off them from bars.

So, go right ahead with your moronic attacks, Leopold, a.k.a. Loeploh. I enjoy my little laugh whenever you do. While you are attacking me, care to tell us how much you give to the boys? Try really hard not to lie.

And don't forget to continue your study of every post I write on different boards. Do you have them all written down? Have you committed them to memory?

Your problem is that you have fallen hook, line and sinker for the bar owners' BS that there's a "standard expected tip" that's chiseled in stone.

That's my problem? I've never asked a bar owner or even a mama-san in my life how much to tip. If you truly believe that it is reasonable and fair to equate the amount you give to boys with the way hotels and airlines establish their rates, then do as you wish. You might even get them down to 300 or 200 baht. I'm sure you'll be saving enough to buy a Ferrari when you return home.

[DOLLY]

...paying 1000 baht (about $29.99 US) is hardly an unfair or exhorbitant price given what you're buying.

That depends on what you comp[are it to. My maid has got to work hard for three full days to make what a bar boy makes in an hour. The women laborers down the street carrying cement for the new building work for almost 4 days to make the same thing. Many Thai college grads wouldn't do much better. Ask them if they think getting 1000 baht for having sex for one hour or less is exhorbitant. That's why so many young Thais go into the sex trade: it's lucrative and easy compared to what's available in the labor market. The idea that you're taking bread out of someone's mouth by paying less than "the standard fee" is promoted by the bar owners for obvious reasons.

[Gay Thailand]

You both need to open your eyes, not your wallets.

I love rose colored glasses.

That depends on what you comp[are it to. My maid has got to work hard for three full days to make what a bar boy makes in an hour. The women laborers down the street carrying cement for the new building work for almost 4 days to make the same thing. Many Thai college grads wouldn't do much better. Ask them if they think getting 1000 baht for having sex for one hour or less is exhorbitant. That's why so many young Thais go into the sex trade: it's lucrative and easy compared to what's available in the labor market.

There is a tremendous difference in the kind of work involved. One involved a sexual act that most would not do in front of their friends and one involves acts that are easily done in front of anyone.

In NYC, the rate for one hour is 300 USD. A typical maid can make that in 3-4 days work as well. I would not want either job for sure. But, there really is no way to compare what it takes for one to do do these jobs. I dare to say that what may be easy for you, may be a mind blowing experience for someone else. It may be easy on the hands but it is most defiantly a mind fuck for most. IMHO

[Gay Thailand]

It is only naive people like Gaythailand can perceive every post of yours as a kind of revelation.

LOL

I was so naive as a kid I used to sneak behind the barn and do nothing. (Johnny Carson)

[Gaybutton]

I should indicate that once again you attacked poor Loeploh who has absolutely nothing to do with my post.

Neither did Nalac, I suppose. Do you actually believe you have anybody fooled? As for what you "doubt," I hope even you are not idiotic enough to think I give a damn about anything you think. Do you also think that people don't realize that you have been lurking daily, just praying I would finally post something here, so you could try unprovoked attacks again?

Ok, you go ahead and attack to your heart's content. I posted to give my opinion about tipping the bar boys, which is what this thread is supposed to be about. I'm not going to waste any more time responding to you and your attacks. I might if those attacks were ever anything intelligent, but since they're not, you'll have to play by yourself. So, see you again next time I post something on a different thread. That'll give you time to think up something else to attack about when I do.

[Hedda]

If we can step deftly around the unnecessary personal droppings in this thread, I think that B.I.G. was spot on when he observed that virtually everything is on sale in Thailand these days, given the state of the economy.

Moreover, even when times were good, I always thought it was peculiar that virtually everything in this country is bought and sold by bargaining over price, but some farangs seem to want to set the fare for sex as a prix fixe. Mind you, these are the same people who don't think twice about haggling with some grandmother over the price of souvenirs on Beach Road, but who bristle at the notion of doing the same sort of bargaining with her grandson selling sexual favors a block away in Pattayaland.

There are, of course, people who come to Thailand for sexual entertainment who could care less about being too generous with tips because they see it as a small price to pay for the convenience, while assuaging the guilt they feel at not being Mother Teresa saving the poor. Why these folks feel it's necessary to impose their personal white man's burden on the rest of us is mystifying. Frankly, after living here so long, I get the feeling quite often that it's the old farangs who need protecting far more than these young sex urchins.

[francois]

[quote name='Hedda' date='Jun 22 2009, 05:01 PM' post='26491']
If we can step deftly around the unnecessary personal droppings in this thread, I think that B.I.G. was spot on when he observed that virtually everything is on sale in Thailand these days, given the state of the economy.
/quote]
Maybe not everything. An ex asked for help to pay for his rent. Because of the economy he is not making much money as a doorman and the rent is due. Do the Thais negotiate the rent? I suppose he could move to cheaper lodgings.

[Tuckerton]

"If we can step deftly around the unnecessary personal droppings in this thread..."

That's hard to do when certain paranoid posters are addicted to pooping and throwing it at anyone who offers dissenting opinions. Unchecked, this situation could result in the entire cyber world becoming covered knee-deep in skat.

[Lucas]

I edited my previous post in were I wrote that I thought it didn't show class to reply the way Gay Thailand and other members from G.T. board were doing. That was wrong. I do not like to go into any further discussion with G.B. The way he replies to most topics on this board is below my style and class and I do not like to go into further discussion with posters like G.B.

[Gaybutton]

No class, I would say !

Is that what you would say? I'd like you to have a look at my first post on this thread and tell me where the insulting part is. I responded legitimately to the topic you posted, in which you asked for opinions as to "is it fair to ask a 50% discount?" Next thing I knew, here comes a totally unprovoked attack by Leopold, a.k.a. Loeploh, to which I responded in kind. It didn't take long for ol' reliable Tuckerton to pipe in with his usual attack, and now one from you. Perhaps some here think their personal dislike of me disqualifies me of my right to express my opinion, just like everyone else.

Tuckerton likes to call me paranoid. Paranoid implies an unjustified suspicion of others. Maybe I really am paranoid, but I'm not the one who started these attacks, am I? It really doesn't matter what I say here. The same people are going to attack every time. That's not paranoia. That's a behavior pattern already established and exhibited by those people. Fortunately, nothing they say has merit anyhow, so let them attack away. You too, if that's what gives you your jollies.

Until "horrible" GT and I are asked by the moderators not to post on this board, I'll give you three guesses what I'm going to do any time I please.

By the way, since I have also been called a "cheap charlie" on this thread by people who can't possibly have the first clue as to how much I pay, tell that to the young man who was quite ill earlier this month and received hospital treatment and medication, at my expense. Tell that to the two young men who truly did not have enough money to pay their rent, probably due to certain people who force them to accept an absolute minimal amount, and came to me. Their rent is now fully paid, also at my expense. Sex, I might add, was not involved with any of them. They didn't offer and I didn't ask.

If you really have been paying those boys the amounts you say you do, and I have no reason to doubt you, that is commendable. Whatever else I think of you, I don't think you're one of the 'cheap charlies'.

Now, the other spendthrifts posting on this thread can tell us all about what they have done for the Thai boys this month, besides trying to negotiate them down to accepting practically nothing to have sex with them, which appears to be all they really give a damn about. Who's the 'cheap charlie'?

[Lucas]

I am very impressed by your generosity G.B.
I am also interested what good work other posters do for the boys.

Do you think that posters on this baht stop board are not generous ?