13 replies to this topic

[mauRICE]

Cambodia has accused soldiers from neighbouring Thailand of burning a boy alive after shooting at villagers in a disputed border region.

Bangkok has insisted the accusations were baseless.

But they come amid simmering tensions between the historic foes over jurisdiction of the land around the 900-year-old Preah Vihear temple, which straddles their common border.

Seven soldiers have been killed in the past year during skirmishes near the site.

Cambodian deputy foreign minister Ouch Borith said he had seen evidence proving the burning took place.

He urged Thailand to investigate what he said was a "brutal and inhumane" act.

Mr Borith said he had seen photographs of the charred body of a boy.

"This is true. We have pictures of the late boy whose hands were tied, along with his remains and ashes," he told reporters.

Cambodian authorities said a 16-year-old boy was arrested by troops on September 11 for cutting down trees on Thai territory.

Soldiers shot and seriously wounded another boy as he fled, the reports said.

Cambodia's foreign ministry sent a statement to its Thai counterpart complaining that the boy's death was a "serious breach of internationally accepted humanitarian principles".

The Thai ministry replied it had been informed by the army that teenagers had trespassed on Thai territory and were given a warning by border troops.

"There was no arrest. They just warned them and pushed back into Cambodia without detention or any clashes," spokeswoman Wimon Kidchob told reporters.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-New..._Border_Dispute

[mauRICE]

Cambodia has accused soldiers from neighbouring Thailand of burning a boy alive after shooting at villagers in a disputed border region...Cambodian authorities said a 16-year-old boy was arrested by troops on September 11 for cutting down trees on Thai territory.

He urged Thailand to investigate what he said was a "brutal and inhumane" act.

Mr Borith said he had seen photographs of the charred body of a boy.

"This is true. We have pictures of the late boy whose hands were tied, along with his remains and ashes," he told reporters.

Buddha would be so proud.

[Surfcrest]

^ Buddha would be so proud.

What's Budda got to do with it, or are we also blaming God for whats happening in Iraq?

[PeterUK]

What's Budda got to do with it, or are we also blaming God for whats happening in Iraq?

You have to understand that Maurice is our resident expert at the snappy, throwaway line. He'd make a great gutter-press headline-writer.

[Surfcrest]

You have to understand that Maurice is our resident expert at the snappy, throwaway line. He'd make a great gutter-press headline-writer.

mauRice has been around for some time.
I recall a time when he deleted his profile and each and every one of his posts on another board some years back. It takes "throwaway" to a whole new level.

[Hedda]

My guess is that Maurice probably knows more about Thailand and Thai history than any farang posting on this or any other gay Thailand board. That kind of familiarity has got to breed a healthy case of cynicism, given the systemic corruption in this society, and the constant state of political subterfuge and counter-revolution that's prevailed among certain circles since 1932. If you are a visitor or recent expat with grand illusions on the idyllic state of the Land of Smiles, you best not study Thai political history or follow its politics, lest you burst your bubble and risk getting labeled a gutter-press writer.

One thing you can be certain of. If this story about the Cambodian boy is true, nobody in the Thai government or Thai press will ever admit it. I'm surprised the English language press even deigned to print it.

[mauRICE]

My guess is that Maurice probably knows more about Thailand and Thai history than any farang posting on this or any other gay Thailand board. That kind of familiarity has got to breed a healthy case of cynicism, given the systemic corruption in this society, and the constant state of political subterfuge and counter-revolution that's prevailed among certain circles since 1932. If you are a visitor or recent expat with grand illusions on the idyllic state of the Land of Smiles, you best not study Thai political history or follow its politics, lest you burst your bubble and risk getting labeled a gutter-press writer.

Oh Hedda, you're too kind; I wish I could live up to your estimation of my supposed knowledge. I'm still very much a student of Thai ways and will probably always be one as the Thai predilection to shoot themselves in the foot never ceases to amaze and fascinate me. Other SE Asian countries are far from perfect; we have our internal spats and differences, but never at the expense of our nationhood, economy and general progress and prosperity. In my opinion, the Thais are unique in that they are incredibly self-destructive; creating problems when there should be none and will do and say anything for personal greed, to save face or simply to have the last word even if it means running their country to the ground. You see this self-inflicted malaise not only at the macro level but at the microcosmic level as well, where socially beneficial projects are destroyed by kamnans, puuyai bahns and chau naas indulging in petty one- upsmanship.

You know something is truly rotten in the state of Siam when a first grader in Nakhorn Nowhere is not being taught anything by his teacher at school because the teacher expects the first grader to attend his private tutorial centre at 40 Bt a pop where the student will receive all the answers to the exams from the said teacher. The boy grows up and perpetuates this cycle of parasitism - that one can't prosper without taking advantage of somebody else. This is just one tiny example.

I'm currently doing a study of government-issued Thai language, history, social studies and Buddhism textbooks used in Por 1 to Mor 3. Many of these books haven't been revised in thirty years (although the covers have become glossier and prettier!). What I've learned so far is nothing that someone with more than a cursory interest in Thailand and a modicum of aptitude and intellectual honesty couldn't discover for himself. It's scary what they are teaching their children, or rather not teaching. Going through these books, one gets the impression that Thai society is still living in the bubble of the Fifth Reign, a period of Thai history which Thais are most proud of. Much of the content is constructed on the model of the prescriptive ideal, with no guidelines as to how that ideal is to be attained, other than vague exhortations of moral propriety and loyalty to established institutions. Descriptive reality within Thailand and regional progress and development are seldom discussed, contributing to the insularity and misguided invincibility that is prevalent among Thais. And because problems are not acknowledged, problem-solving skills are never really developed. First thing to do is to deny that there is a problem; if that's not possible, blame someone else. It's interesting to observe that some foreigners have acculturised themselves to this aspect of Thainess so well that they would rather blame the messenger than acknowledge the issue at hand.

[PeterUK]

If you are a visitor or recent expat with grand illusions on the idyllic state of the Land of Smiles, you best not study Thai political history or follow its politics, lest you burst your bubble and risk getting labeled a gutter-press writer.

You use the same lazy and dishonest technique as Maurice in labelling anyone who disagrees with your extremely negative view of Thailand and its people as silly romantics looking through rose-tinted spectacles. There are people like that and they usually come a cropper, emotionally and perhaps financially too, but I suspect that most people arrive at a balanced view over time which takes in the many systemic faults and disagreeable aspects of life in this country while still managing to appreciate what is positive. I enjoy reading your posts, and Maurice's much of the time, because you both write with intelligence and wit, but what I miss is any acknowledgement from either of you that it is possible to feel enlivened, refreshed and well-served here at times too. When do either of you (and some others on this board for that matter) ever have anything positive to say about your experiences here? It's just one long litany of complaint, criticism and implied superiority. I do my share of all that in private but I try to remind myself that this is my adopted country for a reason. It grates with me that people like us, who are here at least in part for the cheap sex with attractive young men who are on the whole more gracious and accommodating than we have any right to expect, cannot be gracious in turn and acknowledge the good they do us. Of course we should be on our guard against chancers and critical of Thai society where appropriate, but we should also remember that we have chosen to live here and probably prefer it to any alternative. Furthermore, it's the corruption, inequalities and inertia of Thai society that make our privileged lives here possible - a fact that should at the very least make us philosophical and a bit suspicious of our own stridency. In the last resort, if things really are as bad here as some would have us believe, well, no one is forcing us to stay, are they?

[Bernard]

You use the same lazy and dishonest technique as Maurice in labelling anyone who disagrees with your extremely negative view of Thailand and its people as silly romantics looking through rose-tinted spectacles. There are people like that and they usually come a cropper, emotionally and perhaps financially too, but I suspect that most people arrive at a balanced view over time which takes in the many systemic faults and disagreeable aspects of life in this country while still managing to appreciate what is positive. I enjoy reading your posts, and Maurice's much of the time, because you both write with intelligence and wit, but what I miss is any acknowledgement from either of you that it is possible to feel enlivened, refreshed and well-served here at times too. When do either of you (and some others on this board for that matter) ever have anything positive to say about your experiences here? It's just one long litany of complaint, criticism and implied superiority.

Peter, I think in your haste to write another one of your Thai fairy tales, you have totally lost the plot. This thread is about a Cambodian boy immolated by the Thai army, not what colour Maurice's and Hedda's shit is. You have not shown a single waff of compassion or sympathy for the boy in this tragedy but instead pursued your obsession with Maurice. I notice this is not the first time you've launched a personal tirade against him. Be careful, that hard on is showing.

The problem here is you. You huff and puff at the slightest criticism of Thailand. You're enjoying your Thai fantasy but cannot deal with the fact that the only reality backing your fairy tale bubble is your wallet. I've lived in a Thai village for twenty years and can attest to most of the things Hedda and Maurice have said over the years. I enjoy living here for the most part but I have no beef with those who take the time and effort to offer their analysis for the more negative aspects of the Land of Smiles. Perhaps you should write another cheap novel; might give you the vindication of your Thai experience that you so desperately crave.

[PeterUK]

Be careful, that hard on is showing.

And you've got a bit of a hard-on for me too, haven't you, which seems to cause all reason to take flight. Don't worry, I'll be careful. As for the Cambodian boy, you say it yourself: 'allegedly immolated'. I'll wait till it becomes more than a claim, if it ever does, before voicing my indignation.

[Hedda]

When do either of you (and some others on this board for that matter) ever have anything positive to say about your experiences here?

Maurice can speak for himself but since most of my positive experiences living here are quite personal in nature, financed by a decent income well matched to the cost of living, I prefer to keep this personal side of life to myself, out of the public domain and off the internet. I think I am quite happy and content living here on a personal level. Suffice to say, if I didn't have good reasons for living here, I'm still portable enough to leave.

That doesn't mean I have to sit quietly, vegetating between bouts of good food, wine and sex. On the contrary, I have discovered that one of the things that can make life far more interesting and challenging here is to keep my stoic half alive by trying to understand what makes this place tick. An integral part of that process is sharing critical views with other expats on a posting board like this. The process is inevitably a critical one; who wants to sit around and pretend we're working for the Tourist Board.

When you suggest that "if things really are as bad here as some would have us believe, well, no one is forcing us to stay, are they," you demonstrate a fundamental lack of understanding that the life of an expat can be very good here, even if we think that the country's morals, politics and economy are going to hell in a basket. The fact that some of us see more wrinkles, warts and pimples in the smiling face of Thailand than many Thais would care to admit, does not mean it's time to pull up stakes and catch a plane. It's all a tale of two realties, mine and theirs, in the best and worst of times.

[PeterUK]

I prefer to keep this personal side of life to myself, out of the public domain and off the internet.

A perfectly valid position. There's no law saying that messageboards have to be treated like confessionals and indeed sometimes I could do without them. I still come over all queasy when I recall some of Dodger's long-gone explicit accounts of his sexual exploits! (In fairness to Dodger his 'less spicy' personal reminiscences are usually appealingly honest and amusing).

Your point about 'trying to understand what makes this place tick' sounds laudable but in all honesty I have to say that the impression I get reading this board is not of people 'sharing critical views' in a true spirit of investigation but of people gleefully reinforcing each other's prejudices. The original topic of this thread is a good case in point. It is quite clear from reading the article that we are in the realm of claim and counter-claim here with no clearly-established facts. Unfortunately I can easily imagine Thai soldiers doing this terrible thing but, given the prolonged and bitter nature of the conflict over this wretched 4.6 square kilometers of land, it could just as easily be a particularly nasty bit of Cambodian propaganda. The sensible course is to await developments. So why does Maurice have to give the piece a title proclaiming 'Cambodian boy burned alive by Thai troops' and then follow up with the truly asinine comment 'Buddha would be so proud'? A clear case of playing to the gallery of anti-Thai prejudice on this board if you ask me. It's what prompted my rather childish 'gutter-press' remark. That this opening post is unworthy of Maurice is shown by his longer post later in the thread which is insightful and well-written and had me nodding in agreement. I guess with Maurice it's a case of which side of the bed he got out of in the morning as to whether you get Dr Jekyll or Mr Hide.

[Rogie]

... it's a case of which side of the bed he got out of in the morning as to whether you get Dr Jekyll or Mr Hide.

A good play on words there Peter!

I often wonder if veteran posters, of which I am not one, have had plenty of time to build up a nice thick hide, to the better withstand and resist awkward arrows. In addition a good hidey hole where one can retreat to when things get tough could prove useful, where they can restock their armoury ready for the next foray.

[Bernard]

So why does Maurice have to give the piece a title proclaiming 'Cambodian boy burned alive by Thai troops' and then follow up with the truly asinine comment 'Buddha would be so proud'? A clear case of playing to the gallery of anti-Thai prejudice on this board if you ask me. It's what prompted my rather childish 'gutter-press' remark. That this opening post is unworthy of Maurice is shown by his longer post later in the thread which is insightful and well-written and had me nodding in agreement. I guess with Maurice it's a case of which side of the bed he got out of in the morning as to whether you get Dr Jekyll or Mr Hide.

I see you can't keep it in, with no fewer than three mentions of 'Maurice' in one short paragraph! It's posters like you who drive legitimate, insighful posters away with your personal attacks and asinine comments. I hope Maurice will let this slide like water off a duck's back. As for you, I suggest you zip it up and take a very cold shower - Thai style, with a scoop and a bucket.