10 replies to this topic

[B.I.G.]

[attachmentid=849] During the recent censure debate over who killed the people who took refuge in the temple, Prime Minister Opposite made the claim that forensics from the dead bodies showed that some of the dead were not shot from a high angle, as claimed by the opposition who claimed troops fired into the temple from the skytrain ramp above.

[quote] "PM Abhisit said during the parliamentary censure debate that four of the six bodies found inside Pathum Wanaram Temple died from bullets shot from a shallow angle, not the Skytrain." http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...e-30130773.html [/quote]

"Suthep says troops had gun battle near Wat Pathum Wanaram around time six were shot; Abhisit says autopsies show four died from bullets shot from shallow angle, not Skytrain." http://www.thailandqa.com/forum/showthread...6689#post216689 [/quote]

"Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said during the debate that four of the six temple deaths were the result of shots fired from a relatively shallow angle, and not from a high angle such as the Skytrain track." http://teakdoor.com/thailand-and-asia-news...e-debate-2.html

But in today's newspapers, it was disclosed for the first time that: "Police forensic reports on the six bodies said multiple gunshots from high-power weapons were the cause of death. There was no mention about the firing angle."http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...g-30130789.html

The obvious question: Did PM Opposite lie to Parliament and the world during the censure debate ?

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[gay_grampa]

Prime Minister Abhisit was probably using the latest reliable information available:

Porntip challenges nurse autopsy finding
By The Nation

BANGKOK: -- A volunteer nurse shot dead inside the Pathum Wanaram Temple had just two wounds on her body, Central Institute of Forensic Science (CIFS) director Khunying Dr Porntip Rojanasunan said yesterday.

She was speaking out against the autopsy result released by the National Police Office's Institute of Forensic Medicine (IFM), which said the 25-year-old nurse, Kamonkate Athart, sustained up to 10 gunshot wounds - three in the chest, six in the arms and legs and one in the back.
Porntip dismissed any suggestion that Kamonkate was targeted in a hail of bullets.

Kamonkate's body was one of six retrieved from the temple on May 20, one day after the red-shirt rally at the Rajprasong intersection ended after intense military pressure. The deaths have raised many questions because the temple had been declared a no-killing zone.

Porntip said she and her team had examined the six bodies at the Pathum Wanaram Temple and collected evidence there, before the bodies were sent to the IFM for autopsies.

"One of the bullets hit the nurse in her arm while the other pierced her right waist and went deep into the base of her brain," Porntip said based on her examinations.
So far, she has not taken part in the autopsies, which have been performed by IFM.

To date, the relatives of the six victims have already claimed the bodies for funeral rites.

Aside from Kamonkate, the other deceased victims were Attachai Chumjan, 28, Mongkhon Khemthong, 36, Sukan Sriraksa, 31, Akkharadej Khankaew, 22 and Wichai Manphae, 61.

Even the Nation article you quote says that there is a dispute over this nurse's killing ... but you failed to include that snippet so that you could take yet another childish snipe at the PM.

[Taxi driver]

Prime Minister Abhisit was probably using the latest reliable information available:

Hey Gramps, you old jackass, where in the stuff you just posted does it say anything about the angle of the fire that hit any victim ? All it says is that Pornthip says one victim got shot twice, not more, as originally thought. It also says Pornthip didn't participate in any of the police autopsies.

Why don't you post a page from the Bangkok telephone directory next time ? It's just as relevant to the point being made: Abhisit appears to have had no factual basis to make his claim about the angle of fire.

If all of this is too much for you to absorb, why don't you leave the thinking and posting to other people. You'rre way out of your league when it comes to thinking above the waist.

[B.I.G.]

Although I would not put it as colorfully as Taxi driver, I have to agree that I don't see the relevance of Gay Grandpa's last post to the issue of whether the PM lied about the angle of fire. There's just nothing in Grandpa's reply that relates to the issue.

[UncleSam]

There's just nothing in Grandpa's reply that relates to the issue.

Since when do his posts relate to anything but excess gastric juices ? He's giving us old men a bad rap.

[gay_grampa]

...I don't see the relevance of Gay Grandpa's last post to the issue of whether the PM lied about the angle of fire. There's just nothing in Grandpa's reply that relates to the issue.

"One of the bullets hit the nurse in her arm while the other pierced her right waist and went deep into the base of her brain," Porntip said based on her examinations.

Unless this nurse was doing a handstand at the time of the shooting it shows that the angle of flight of the bullet was not from a position higher than she was.
Thus it shows that the people in the temple were not fired on from the skytrain tracks above.
The Army were on those skytrain tracks but the shots that killed the nurse did not come from that area.

[Haloi]

Unless this nurse was doing a handstand at the time of the shooting it shows that the angle of flight of the bullet was not from a position higher than she was.

You assume the nurse was standing upright. If she was kneeling or bending over to help someone on the ground, with her head down, a bullet piercing her waist from behind could easily have traveled into the base of her brain. The other bullet in the hand could have come from any angle before or after she fell.

More importantly, how does anything you posted prove that Opposite didn't lie when he claimed he had evidence that 4 of 6 people were not shot from a high angle. I find it incredible that the police autopsy conveniently overlooked the angle of entry on any wounds, but since it did, you got to ask: where did Abhisit get his facts from ?

[Jesse]

Sorry to say, it's starting to look like this prime minister has lied about so many things since taking office that it's impossible to believe anything he says anymore. He will say anything if he thinks he will benefit from it and since he has no power to tell the army, police or bureaucracy what to do, what he says is meaningless

[Sexpat]

"Forensic Science Institute director Pornthip Rojanasunand yesterday said she would do her best to investigate the six dead bodies found in the temple and urged all sides to calm down. She said the investigation was difficult, because of the different groups slinging mud at each other.

Pornthip said the autopsy report found the bullets had come from higher ground. However, she said her inspection also found that some people were shot from below - such as the woman who had a bullet wound running from her waist to the base of her skull. It is suspected that victim may have been bending over or crouching at the time, prompting them to check the possible bullet direction.

Pornthip said she did not want to come to any conclusions until there was a thorough investigation of the scene and detailed autopsy results. So far, Pornthip's team has matched four victims to spots at the scene, while the other two remain unknown. Witnesses will be interviewed to determine this information later."

media.com/home/2010/06/04/national/Relatives-file-police-complaints-30130828.html

[Bob]

".........Pornthip Rojanasunand yesterday ..........urged all sides to calm down. She said the investigation was difficult, because of the different groups slinging mud at each other...."

It's as if she read this thread before making her comments.

[Kirkland]

What's clear from all this debate is that Abhisit has yet to keep his promise to have an "independent" study made of who shot or killed whom among the 87 dead and 1900 injured. Autopsies by the Thai police and evaluations by Porthip, who is on the government and CRES payroll, are not going to satisfy anyone but blind supporters. Every day that Abhisit delays is a day that the trail gets colder, which is what he probably wants anyway. Study your recent Thai history and you will see that whitewash and impunity are the watchwords. No one in power or allied with those in power ever gets punished, whether it was Thaksin five years ago investigating the drug wars or atrocities against Muslims in the south, or Abhisit now, killing fellow Buddhists with abandon.